00:00:04,800 S1: All right. Good evening everyone. Welcome to the town Council meeting. It is September 14th, 2026 at 6:33 p.m.. We will get this meeting started. First, we will do the Pledge of Allegiance. 00:00:24,640 S1: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the. 00:00:27,080 S2: United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 00:00:41,040 S1: All right. We will get started with visitors. Comments. If there's anybody here tonight that wants to talk about something that is not on the agenda, now is your time to come up to the microphone. State your name and address. 00:00:57,680 S3: Speak now or forever hold your peace. Amen. Ross. 00:01:02,050 S4: All right. 00:01:03,090 S1: Seeing none, we will go on to the approval of the meeting minutes from August 10th and August 17th. Does anybody have any comments on the meeting minutes? Adjustments. Okay. I would take a motion to approve meeting minutes for August 10th and August 17th. 00:01:24,090 S5: All right. 00:01:25,690 S1: Motion second. 00:01:28,170 Any other discussion? S3: 17th. I wasn't here, so I think that was the one. 00:01:31,770 S5: I have a quorum. 00:01:34,450 S3: So. 00:01:35,250 S1: Um it looks like you were not at the August 10th meeting. 00:01:40,130 S3: Is it your sense? One of the two. 00:01:42,410 S1: Yeah, it was just August 10th meeting. So we can, we can, um, take two separate votes. So I will, um, we'll take a motion for the August 10th meeting. 00:01:55,970 S6: Motion by Carl, second by Jim. 00:01:58,530 S1: Okay. Any discussion? All in favor? Aye. One abstention. 00:02:03,890 S7: It should be two for that one. Me and Phil. Okay. Phil and I, I should say. Sorry. 00:02:08,890 S1: Okay. 00:02:09,250 S5: So. Hey. Yeah. 00:02:11,410 S7: Myself. 00:02:11,970 S3: We know what you mean. 00:02:13,090 S8: Yeah. We got you. 00:02:14,810 S1: Okay. Um, so I'll take a motion for the August 17th meeting minutes. Motion in a second. Any further discussion? All in favor? Aye. 00:02:26,050 S7: Abstention. 00:02:26,770 S1: One abstention. 00:02:29,850 S1: Old business. I see none. We have a couple of minutes before our 640 public hearing. So we'll try to get through as many of these new business items. But we will start with the appointment of Patrick Jessup to the Palmer Redevelopment Authority for a term to June 30th, 2029. 00:02:52,730 S3: Yeah. In the back of packet. 00:02:53,650 S9: You guys have Patrick's information. Um, he would complete the last seat for the PRA and they would be full moving forward. Um, Ben Hood, who is the chair of that committee, uh, recommended Patrick for the position. 00:03:05,820 S6: So great. 00:03:08,620 S1: All right. I'll take a motion to appoint Patrick Jessup to the have a motion and a second. Any discussion? All in favor? Aye. 00:03:21,820 S1: Next, we have, uh, friends of the Council on Aging. Marlene Johnson, Council on Aging. Director, if you want to come up, we have a couple minutes before our public hearing. So if you want to just come up and tell us about that, or Pam, a representative from the board, that would be good. 00:03:41,740 S3: Pam. I haven't seen her in years. 00:03:43,980 S5: No, she looks the same. 00:03:49,500 S10: Um, well, we're we're the new friends group of Palmer senior centers, and we, um, as you can see, uh, we do fundraisers. We have dinners, uh, once a month. Um, we try to engage, um, a lot of the community, uh, we're in the process of, um, trying to get more members. Um, we do have our president here, which is Andy over there, Andy Vance, and we have our secretary, which is, uh, Pat. Prue. Prue. Okay. Um, and I'm just one of the volunteers, uh, I, I cook most of the meals, um, that we have. And that's what our major fundraiser right now in, uh, we had hot dog and bean night one night. Um, we've had, uh, burrito night. Um, and next month in October, we are having the baked potato bar. And you see from our flier, all are welcome. Uh, it's $10 for nonmembers, and you can become a member for $5 for the year. Um, we're encouraging any of the public to become a member to support the, uh. 00:05:09,830 S10: The senior. Well, our group supports the senior center in any way that they need. 00:05:14,750 S2: Great. 00:05:15,710 S5: Um, what night is that again for the potato night? 00:05:19,190 S10: October 14th. It's a Wednesday evening at 430. 00:05:23,110 S5: Oh, no. It's for the children. 00:05:24,710 S10: Oh, and absolutely. Carl. 00:05:26,630 S5: October 14th. 00:05:28,310 S10: Thank you. It's a Wednesday evening, and they all start. Thank you. 00:05:31,470 S5: Thank you. 00:05:32,790 S8: 430. 00:05:33,550 S5: All right. 00:05:34,190 S8: And to be a member, is there an age? 00:05:36,910 S10: No. There's no age required to become a member. Uh, it's $5 for a year. 00:05:42,790 S8: Mhm. 00:05:43,270 S10: Um, and we, uh, you know, we go out into the community and look for new members. Right now, we don't have a lot, but we're very active already. Just starting out as a new group, we're very active. 00:05:58,710 S1: Great. And if somebody is interested in becoming a member, how do they reach out to you? 00:06:02,870 S10: Um, they can call the Palmer Senior Center number and it's, uh, option six. We have our own, um, line and we are out in the community. So, um, you know, if you come to our events, we always have registration there so you can sign up. So, um, you know, all are welcome to sign up and support us. And, um, it's a lot of fun. Great. 00:06:28,910 S11: How are you guys taking feedback on. 00:06:30,390 S9: From the community on what events to run or what to sponsor? 00:06:34,710 S10: Um, well, what to sponsor would really be coming from the senior center, what their needs are. Of course, we're just beginning. So there's not a lot we can do. Um, but whatever they need, we're, we're willing to discuss it and come to a, come to a. 00:06:54,440 S10: Conclusion. And as far as the events that we're doing right now, there's just a small group of us that decide what we need to do. Um, but as that group grows, um, we'd like to get into. Doing trips and things like that. But all of this is going to take time because we're, we're so new and, you know, don't have the money behind us yet. Um, light up. Palmer. 00:07:22,440 S2: Palmer. 00:07:22,800 S6: Business partnership. We are going to be working. I've been in preliminary discussions with Marlene, and we're very happy that they're going to, once again, with the friends, be involved in our downtown community event. And we potentially have a little awkward for you guys, um, to support that event as well, like we did last year. 00:07:51,570 S10: Okay. And reach out to Andy and find out what you need from us. Yeah. 00:07:58,690 S6: You got the potato on. 00:08:00,290 S12: The opposite side. Has the form for. 00:08:03,090 S1: The form. 00:08:03,970 S12: Which players have. 00:08:05,650 S10: No, not this one. 00:08:07,010 S12: Do we have another? 00:08:09,650 S13: It's not. 00:08:12,210 S12: Required. I just turned it over. 00:08:15,170 S1: Yeah. I'm just going to reiterate just because the public can't hear that. So I'll just reiterate. For anybody who's watching that, if you're interested in signing up and you come across one of the fliers for an event, there should be a sign up form on the back and that the group is working with, uh, the Palmer Business Partnership, and we'll be working together to decorate for. 00:08:40,250 S6: No, it's actually, we're going to be, um, potentially permit availability to be able to. Instead of having a for profit food truck vendor. 00:08:55,610 S1: Okay. 00:08:56,410 S6: Um, we're going to donate, um, possibly hot dogs like they do at National Night Out that the friends will be able to benefit from. 00:09:07,770 S1: Oh, great. So there could be a potential donation from the Palmer Business Partnership, which is great. Thank you. Thank you so much. Do you have any other any. 00:09:17,370 S10: No. Any questions for us? 00:09:19,330 S1: Yeah. Anybody have any questions? 00:09:20,890 S6: All right. 00:09:21,450 S1: Great. Thank you so. 00:09:22,130 S10: Much. 00:09:22,810 S1: Yeah. Awesome. 00:09:24,010 S2: Thanks. 00:09:24,370 S1: Great to get you guys out in another, um, place to advertise is, you know, we have a lot of viewers at home and, uh, so hopefully that, that will help. So it is now. 642. So I'm going to jump to item F on our agenda, our public hearing for the fuel storage license application for 250 Shear Street. 00:09:49,500 S1: Just find the language. 00:09:58,380 S14: Do you have the language for that? 00:10:13,100 S1: Oh, I see it now. Nevermind. 00:10:14,660 S14: You're good. 00:10:16,900 S1: Uh, this public hearing is to review and further review and approval of Wellman Realty, LLC. Application for a license to keep use and store liquid propane in three above ground tanks with a total capacity of 3000 gallons at 250 Shear Street, Palmer, Massachusetts. This tank is for the expansion of the Palmer Health Care Center. Um, I'll read the background as well. The application was reviewed and approved by Palmer District one Fire Chief Burnett. State law requires a public hearing and approval by the local licensing authority for propane storage licenses. Legal counsel has advised that the Town Council serves in that role. Therefore, the application is being presented to the Town Council for consideration. The applicant published notice of this public hearing scheduled for the Town Council meeting on September 14th, 2026 in the Journal Register, and has notified all abutting property owners and owners of property directly opposite the site on any public or private street, in accordance with the notice requirements of Mass General Law. Chapter 148, section 13. I will open the public hearing at 644. 00:11:39,660 Is there anybody from the Council with any comments? Questions? S7: Just a quick. There were already two when I drove by recently. They were doing the land clearing and everything. There were already two. Is anybody here, by the way, to represent. You want to. 00:11:51,070 S8: They were. 00:11:51,710 S7: Just. Yeah, they already had two storage containers, I think there. 00:11:55,150 S12: Yeah. So it's a mess law. 00:11:57,990 S15: But most towns and communities haven't followed it for years or it's it's fairly new. So we're trying to do the right thing for the safety of the fire department and the community by filling this out. The fire department knows exactly what's there, where it is. So as we come across these, we're trying to fix them and anything new. But like you said, there has been two there for years. Right. 00:12:22,190 S7: So so it's just an expansion to a third because of the expansion on the property. Gotcha. 00:12:27,270 S15: Okay. This is for the Palmer Health Care. By law. They have to have a generator 24 over seven. So I'll assist with that. And the kitchen. 00:12:35,190 S7: Awesome. 00:12:36,510 S8: So there was two in the new area in the construction area on the ground. 00:12:42,750 S15: The two existing that are there that they're going to be, um, moved this week and the three new ones will be put on the new pad. 00:12:50,190 S8: Okay. So they're going to be above ground, not buried. 00:12:52,710 S15: Yeah. All above ground. 00:12:53,670 S8: Okay. Thank you. 00:12:55,390 S16: That's all I had. 00:12:57,750 S1: Anybody here from the public for comment? 00:13:02,790 S1: Seeing none. I will close this public hearing at 6:46 p.m.. 00:13:09,310 S7: Sounds good. Thank you. 00:13:10,350 S12: Thank you. 00:13:10,790 S2: Thank you. 00:13:11,830 S1: Do we have to? 00:13:13,150 S7: There's no vote on that, right? 00:13:14,470 S9: Um, I would say. 00:13:15,910 S7: Just a hearing. 00:13:16,510 S9: Right. No, there needs to be a vote by because you guys are technically the licensing authority on this, right? So there should be a vote that follows that. 00:13:22,070 S1: Okay. 00:13:23,390 S3: So I have another different line item then a vote. Well, um. 00:13:28,630 S9: Technically yes, but. 00:13:30,190 S14: We'll make it. 00:13:31,030 S9: The purpose. We know what the purpose of this was. 00:13:32,710 S3: Time limit. After the public hearing that you voted on. 00:13:36,110 S9: For ordinance changes and loan authorizations. Yes. 00:13:40,030 S12: Okay. 00:13:41,110 S3: Good. 00:13:41,430 S12: Yeah. 00:13:42,080 S14: Yeah. 00:13:42,960 S1: Okay. I will make a motion to approve Wellman Realty, LLC application for a license to keep use and store liquid propane in three above ground tanks with a total capacity of 3000 gallons at 250 Shear Street. Palmer, Massachusetts. Uh, for the for the expansion of the Palmer Health Care Center. 00:14:05,160 Do I have a second? S7: I just want to amend that and add that it was already reviewed and approved by Palmer District one fire chief. 00:14:11,040 S16: Okay. 00:14:11,840 S1: Amendment with the amended motion, we have a motion and a second. 00:14:21,040 Any further discussion? All in favor? S14: Aye. 00:14:24,160 S1: Okay. 00:14:25,280 S3: Amen. 00:14:27,520 S8: Thank you. Thank you. 00:14:28,360 S7: Thank you. 00:14:29,520 S1: Now we will move back up to item C, ordinance 2027-04. The chapter 145 Stormwater Management Ordinance revision. First read. Jess and Tracy. Adam Adamsky. At Ty and Bond. Thank you. 00:14:54,410 S6: Do you want to stand. 00:14:57,970 S5: By. 00:14:58,570 S9: Their seats? If you want. We have plenty of room. 00:15:00,810 S6: So I forgot when it was we came. I came before you to present the first read, but that was a little while ago. So now we're here with the second read, and we have. 00:15:13,330 Does everybody have the revisions in front of them? S7: Yeah, digitally. Most of us. 00:15:15,170 S8: This is the one that's large development projects starts it. 00:15:20,050 S6: Yeah, yeah. So again it says chapter 145. But if you're looking at E code, the number is going to be a little different. So we're just making sure we're all looking at the same document. 00:15:32,650 S6: 145 yeah, I'm not sure. So Tracy is here who helped draft this and was she's been here all along the way throughout all the years. So has a lot of background knowledge, if anybody has any questions. 00:15:48,490 S9: Can you just do a general review of what went into it process? 00:15:52,730 S12: Sure. 00:15:54,050 S17: So you had an existing stormwater management by our ordinance already in place. So this is um I think I've been in front of some of you like before talking about the um, municipal separate storm sewer systems, the ms4. So this bylaw came out of, or this ordinance came out of the ms4 requirements from EPA. A new permit came out in 2016 that had some additional requirements to go into local ordinances. So, um, a number of years ago now, we started taking a look at the overall ordinances to see if there were some changes, because changes had to be made to meet the new Ms4 permit. 00:16:55,460 Were there some additional changes to be made? So the previous um iteration of the stormwater management ordinances followed the site plan approval S17: triggers in order to um, require the permit. Not all of those site plan approval triggers are related to land development. It could be a new number of parking spaces or gross floor area, new tenants, um, new employee or an increase in employees. So what we did was, um, worked with the staff at the time. And I think there's been a few iterations, um, which is in part why it's taken us a little bit to get here. But what we did was set, um, this permit up into for like, I guess two levels. So there's an administrative review that would go through the Conservation Commission for any project that disturbed land between ten zero zero zero square feet and an acre, and then required a full stormwater management through the Planning Board for anything that disturbed an acre or more. And that's the threshold for the Ms4 permit is any project that disturbs greater than an acre. And so there's a more thorough review for those projects, but allowing for an administrative review to make sure that there's erosion and sediment controls in place for other projects that are disturbing 10,000ft², um, more than 10,000ft² in less than an acre. 00:18:19,900 S14: Okay. 00:18:21,900 S1: Um, so I have on the agenda and in our packet that this is a first read. 00:18:28,420 S14: Is that right? 00:18:29,340 S9: It is because we wanted to hold the we didn't want to have the first reading, last meeting because Tracy wasn't on available to be here now that she is. I'd want to have like this is meant for any questions and answers the board may have. Okay. Um, to bring that forward right now. Okay. Because what I really want to do is I want to go to the public hearing, having it finalized because Tracy also will not be at the public hearing. 00:18:52,870 S1: Okay. Understood. 00:18:54,750 S7: So we're doing a first reading on this version because this is not a clean version. This is the doctored version that you gave to us in our packet. 00:19:03,110 S6: That's what was asked for. 00:19:05,150 S7: So this is not clean. 00:19:06,790 S9: But it has the does it have redline edits in it? 00:19:08,670 S7: Well, yeah, that's what I mean. It's not. You would do a first reading on a completed document wouldn't you? 00:19:13,790 S9: Not necessarily. 00:19:15,590 S7: Okay. 00:19:16,030 S9: Necessarily. Because if you're tracking you want to know what's being changed, right. These are so long. I don't want you guys to have to do side by side of. Well, there's. 00:19:23,670 S7: Definitely a lot more than administrative changes in here. There's huge chunks that have been blocked out and changed to different verbiage, obviously, and things that have changed over the years, and I understand why, but it's not. It's not digestible the way it is. I mean, for anybody else but us. 00:19:40,920 S14: Yeah. 00:19:41,120 S1: Well, I think that this can be um if this were posted for public consumption, it would be the, you know, the edits would be taken off and it would just be. 00:19:53,080 S7: The regular document. 00:19:54,040 S1: Right. So I guess the difference between treating this as a first read or just treating this as a draft would be if there was substantial changes from tonight. 00:20:06,040 S9: From what's proposed tonight to the next. Understood. It'll go back to a first read. 00:20:10,080 S1: So basically, if we if we don't have any substantial changes, that would really change what's proposed here, then we can move forward as as normal. But if there were to be a substantial change, then we would probably. 00:20:24,440 S9: Start over again. Exactly. And I didn't want to get to technically, this could have been the public hearing for this, but if there's changes, I don't want to have to restart this all over again. 00:20:33,240 S16: Got it. Yeah. 00:20:34,560 S7: Now there's been talk. 00:20:35,840 S3: Public hearing. Should have the final draft, right? 00:20:38,680 S16: Right. 00:20:39,160 S3: Yeah. 00:20:39,480 S9: Not exactly. 00:20:40,760 S16: Yeah. 00:20:41,600 S7: So there was talk about us monetizing the stormwater permitting process and things like that. Are we. We're not going there yet. 00:20:49,840 S6: Not the permitting process. That was the stormwater utility. I think you're referring to. 00:20:53,480 S7: Yeah. There was something that we were talking about. 00:20:55,560 S6: Right. And so I think that might have been part of the reason why this never went forward in the past was because it was kind of looked at as one thing when they're completely separate entities. So an ordinance that you have in place for, um, looking at projects and making sure that everybody's, you know, managing their stormwater on site and making sure that during construction, they're not allowing their stormwater to, you know, erode their neighbor's property and things like that. Whereas the utility would have been a different type of stormwater fee with that has to do with the amount of impervious surface currently on your property. 00:21:27,920 S7: That's what I meant. 00:21:28,440 S6: Yeah. Which you could look at right now at any point in time, you know what I mean? It's not like it has to do with new. 00:21:34,930 S7: And that has nothing. I'm just trying to differentiate between the two. Okay. We're not even talking about that. Okay. Perfect. 00:21:40,210 S6: And so I think that might have been the issue in the past, but that unfortunately it wasn't clarified. So then. 00:21:46,210 S7: Absolutely. 00:21:48,490 S16: Perfect. 00:21:51,730 S1: Um, I just had a question about the stormwater authority. Is it typical for the planning board to be, um the stormwater authority of the permits. 00:22:03,490 S14: For. 00:22:03,690 S6: Large scale. 00:22:04,730 S14: Scale? 00:22:05,090 S12: Yeah, yeah. 00:22:06,530 S17: It's really up to the community. I've seen a number of different iterations, but a number of communities do have planning boards as. 00:22:15,210 S6: It depends on your staff. So, you know, some communities on their planning staff, they have a separate stormwater person, person that might look like a DP like Department of Public Works almost. But sure. Um, you know, because we have one, basically one full time staff member, right? We have to wear different hats. 00:22:33,570 S14: Yeah. Okay. 00:22:35,090 S7: Well, I would not disagree with that. Only because they are the ones that approve the site plan. And I'm sure that stormwater has to do with the site plan, a huge part of it. Right. 00:22:43,490 S6: So yeah. 00:22:45,810 S7: Right. 00:22:46,530 S17: And the planning board was the original entity in your previous iteration of your ordinance. 00:22:52,250 S16: Perfect. Sounds good. 00:22:53,850 S14: Great. 00:22:54,850 S1: Sir, any other questions from the council? Okay, so I'll read. Um, I'll just read the language as this is the first read. Uh, so amendment to the zoning Code of Ordinances of the town of Palmer. Uh, this would be Town Ordinance 2027-04. This is an ordinance amending the Code of Ordinances of the Town of Palmer. Chapter 145 Stormwater Management. The amendment updates and modernizes the town's stormwater Management ordinance to clarify requirements. strengthen compliance with state and federal ms4 regulations, and better protect public health, safety and water resources. It revises definitions, updates, permitting thresholds, and refines approval and permitting procedures. The ordinances also strengthen standards for erosion control, stormwater design, inspections, maintenance and enforcement to ensure stormwater systems remain effective throughout a project's life. As this is the first reading, no vote will be taken at this time. A public hearing will be held at the next regular meeting. A full copy of the ordinance is available for public inspection at the office of the Town Manager. 00:24:09,740 S1: Okay. 00:24:13,140 S14: Thank you. Thank you. 00:24:15,380 S12: Thank you. 00:24:19,380 S14: All right. 00:24:21,500 S1: So up next, we have Three Rivers Junction structure report findings and In recommendations. Ken Lord, wastewater treatment plant superintendent, and Dan Holmes and Matt Kirk tie in bond. 00:24:36,580 S12: Good evening everybody. 00:24:38,340 S16: Hello. 00:24:38,860 S14: Hello. 00:24:39,540 S16: Hello. 00:24:43,300 S14: There we go. 00:24:45,300 S12: Yeah. 00:24:47,940 S12: Um. 00:24:48,620 S14: You guys both want to sit? No. It's okay. That's okay. 00:24:51,620 S12: I'm going to try to keep it brief. Uh, we were here not that long ago, so a couple of months ago. We have talked about this project in the past. Um, we also talked about the Thorndyke Syphons project. So just have a quick little slide show to talk through this project specifically and what the next steps are. Um. 00:25:15,740 S12: So I don't know if you guys, do you guys see this on your tablets? 00:25:20,260 S14: Oh, we. 00:25:20,660 S12: Have. 00:25:20,900 S16: A copy. We also. 00:25:22,380 S14: Have. 00:25:22,700 S16: Yeah. 00:25:22,980 S12: I'm not looking at me. 00:25:23,780 S16: No no no. 00:25:25,550 S7: Through you. It's okay. Yes. 00:25:28,150 S12: All right. So here's the site. Those blue lines there. Um, that was the original project area where we CCTV. You have an eight inch PVC coming in from the east side. That pipe was in good condition. You have a 30 inch RCP coming in from the north side. That was also in good condition. Uh, we did only CCTV that one stretch and I'll talk about that a little bit more later. Uh, we also looked at the siphon, but then we also looked at this 30 inch RCP to the south, and that's where the CCTV revealed a lot of corrosion. And we did some additional investigation, um, which is shown right here on this slide. We ended up going back in TV ING the remainder of the line all the way up to Main Street. 00:26:22,630 S12: Okay. So the siphon and head structure. This is a three barrel siphon. 00:26:29,520 S12: On the first picture on the left, the left hand side. That is a 18 inch pipe. The middle one is a 12 inch, and the one on the right is a 24. That middle pipe is a 12 inch, but it is out of service because when we evaluated this previously, the bottom of that pipe was actually missing. So the goal is to reinstate that and line that so it's back in service. Uh, quick photo of the actual siphon structure. I think we saw this in the past. Uh, you can very corroded. Um, you can see the concrete there a lot of spalling. Uh, so back in 2020, April 2026, uh, we did the report on this. We evaluated it and we looked at whether we could rehab it or replace it. And the costs were pretty similar between the two because it was in such poor shape. So we recommended the rehab replacement. Uh, we. Sorry. We recommended the replacement. Sorry. 00:27:38,120 S12: This is the actual. So there's your siphon pipes. Three barrels. The photo is just the 12 inch. That's not being used right now. The bottom of the pipe. It's kind of hard to see. It's a little blurry is actually missing. And then there's some pipe and some wood that's in there that will have to be removed during construction. 00:28:01,960 S12: Uh, going back to the interceptor. So when we came back out in CCTV, the remainder of that 30 inch line to the south, these were some of the photos that came back. You can see down on the bottom of that, on the photo on the left, the bottom of the pipe is showing a pretty good solid concrete pipe there. As you go up where the remainder of the pipe is exposed to HH2S, you can see the heavy corrosion, so much so that it's spalled the concrete and you actually have some rebar. Some of the wire mesh reinforcement shown there that's obviously rusting as well, which really gives the pipe a lot most of its strength. So we getting that repaired as soon as possible is what the goal is. Um, and yeah, the, and how to repair that we're looking to first clean it, but then put a zip liner that's cured in place pipe weiner. Uh, so that that liner, once it goes in and cures, uh, it has significant strength so that if the hose pipe actually wasn't there, it would be strong enough to withstand loads above it. 00:29:21,170 S12: Um, so then on the north side, this, this one actually was in much better shape than the south side. So there's no planned work for that first segment. But the, uh, treatment plant we are planning on as it goes to the north, it runs up through a easement that has lots of trees, hasn't been accessed in a while. So we are looking to do a project there that cleans out those easements to give the sewer department access to those manholes. And then once access is restored, then we'll get back in there and CCTV those pipes to make sure they're in good shape, like the first segment. But that's since the first segment is in good shape. We're hoping the remainder is. 00:30:08,690 S12: Uh, and this was just a photo of PVC pipe. You know, it's a plastic pipe, very smooth wall, much better shape than, uh, RCP. 00:30:19,660 S12: And finally project cost. This was in the report. Um. 00:30:27,060 S12: This includes the design, the permitting and construction. We do have a 40% contingency which is relatively high, but we haven't really advanced the design too far. So we don't we haven't really narrowed down the exact cost there. Um, you know, we're at 2.87. We're kind of saying maybe consider 3 million, um, for the overall project costs. You know, fuel's going up. That's going to have direct impacts on construction. So. 00:31:01,660 S12: All right. So that's essentially the project. Uh, and then we provided a proposal for you saw that. And that's to get us through the design and permitting to have a package ready for bidding, uh, that will include subsurface geotech explorations. A full survey of the area. Design. Once we get to 60% design, we'll 6070. We'll have a package ready to be presented in front of the permitting folks get the permitting going, and then we can move to final design once the permitting has been finished. 00:31:40,740 S1: And what's the timeline on this? 00:31:44,460 S14: All of it. All of it. 00:31:45,980 S1: The short term and the long term. 00:31:48,420 S12: Yeah. So we budgeted for like 12 weeks for preliminary design. That would be get the contract signed. Coordinate with our subs which is the surveyor Geotech. Have them get out there. Uh. 00:32:04,780 S12: Once we have all that information, we'll have meetings, talk through it, make sure we're all on the same page for the project scope, and then advance that to the 60%. We probably need another 12 weeks to get there. Once we get to that point, we can start the permitting process. 00:32:26,230 S12: The permitting. It can be lengthy sometimes not just local conservation. If we have to go to other permitting agencies. Um, so some of that can be concurrent with the design. So it's not like we get to 60% stop everything then permit, don't do anything, wait for permitting and then keep going. We'll be able to continue to advance. So that's where I guess we don't probably have a real good timeline. It gets co-mingled there. 00:33:02,190 Um, so do we say it's 24, S12: 32, 32 weeks, I would say. And then obviously it might take a little bit longer if we have substantial comments from the town at the 60% design. 00:33:12,510 S8: So without permitting, you're talking March or April. 00:33:19,200 S12: Will, at a minimum, have it submitted. Some of those review times. And if they ask for revisions and we have to resubmit it, it may take longer than that to actually get the final approved permits. 00:33:33,360 S5: I got a question. How full is that pipe as it's going up? You use a jargon word. 00:33:45,800 Uh, the top part is that, uh, going bad because of the gases or the liquid? S12: It is. It's actually gases. Gases. Yep. So if you look at the photo on the left here, the. Yeah, yeah. So you see how it goes from gray to brown to white. So that gray part that's sitting there is actually the flow line of the, of the flow that's coming down the pipe. So that's about where the flow line is. And so everything else above that is constantly exposed to the, to the h2's gases, as the, as the flow is coming through. 00:34:10,640 S5: And where do they dissipate or where do they leave out of that pipe? The gases. Is there vents or. 00:34:17,440 S12: So it will usually leave through anywhere that. There's an open manhole covers that you see on the road. The junction structure that's actually at the end of Riverside. Um, that's experiencing a lot of it to where it's off gassing before it goes into the siphons. And so there's a lot of the covers on that structure that are actually seized shut, for lack of a better term, because the gases have corroded it so bad that you can't even open the covers. 00:34:40,480 S5: Yeah. Boom. 00:34:41,240 S12: So yeah. 00:34:42,880 S15: So and then. 00:34:43,680 S18: With the sewer system, a lot of homes are connected to the sewer system, right? So gases can travel up those laterals and out the stacks. 00:34:53,040 S5: The thing on the toilet has that loop. So the gases. 00:34:56,280 S18: Prevent gas from going to the house. It goes up the stack and yeah, yeah. Yep. 00:35:00,440 S8: Thank you. 00:35:00,840 S5: So with this from my own thoughts. 00:35:02,760 S18: Good question. 00:35:04,640 S8: Um, these repairs, how long are they, you know, guaranteed. 00:35:13,370 S8: What's your warranty on this? 00:35:15,170 S5: Depends how many times you flush. 00:35:17,970 S8: No, I'm just curious. You know. 00:35:19,890 S9: What's the existing? The existing one was. 00:35:22,050 S12: The existing one was put in in. 00:35:24,930 S7: 70s when the plant was built. 00:35:26,250 S16: Right. 00:35:26,690 S14: I'm getting. 00:35:27,450 S12: Yeah, 1970, 1976. 00:35:30,090 S16: Yeah. 00:35:30,490 S7: The 70s when it was originally. 00:35:32,210 S8: So 50 years is. 00:35:33,490 S12: Yeah. 00:35:33,930 S14: So what you're replacing. 00:35:35,330 S1: It with is not. 00:35:36,530 S14: Like. 00:35:36,810 S12: It's. 00:35:36,970 S14: Not material. 00:35:38,370 S12: So we're gonna be replacing it with stuff like the, the CIP lining that he was talking about that is corrosion resistant. It's made of stuff that won't get affected by H2S gas. And then when we replace the design, the siphon structure to be replaced, we're actually going to line that siphon structure with an H2S resistant coating before it goes in place and goes. 00:35:55,690 S8: This could be 75 years. 00:35:57,130 S12: So the hope is that we will never have to worry about that. 00:36:00,130 S8: We'll be fine. Yeah. Okay. I figure this isn't going to come up again in a couple of years. I'm just trying to ask. 00:36:07,970 S7: Are there any inputs from that line from Main Street to the siphon because it goes through the AmVets property. 00:36:14,050 S12: Right there. Local collectors that go back out to Main Street before comes in here that that. 00:36:18,010 S7: So that pipe is just a straight shot to the to the siphon. 00:36:21,730 S16: Correct. 00:36:22,650 S7: So there's that's pretty much that's going to save us too, because that's if it's just a straight shot, then you don't have to worry about any other connections having to cut those connections and get them in and. Correct. Got it. 00:36:32,810 S16: Yeah. 00:36:35,690 S18: Yeah. So RCP pipe isn't generally used for sewers anymore. Years ago it was this was a little different system. It was a combined sewer. So you had stormwater and sewage. So several of those factors. 00:36:49,010 S3: Back when you had the stormwater, that pipe was always full. 00:36:52,250 S18: During rain events. 00:36:53,130 S3: Yeah. 00:36:53,610 S16: Well. 00:36:54,290 S8: We were still using lead paint back then. So things have progressed. 00:36:58,410 S16: Yeah. 00:36:58,930 S3: We've all eaten. 00:37:00,010 S18: The green pipe. That's the PVC. 00:37:02,050 S8: We're doing good. 00:37:02,530 S3: Yeah we're fine. We ate lead. 00:37:03,770 S16: Pretty much so. 00:37:04,450 S18: Doesn't have the corrosive properties. 00:37:06,250 S5: How do you spell that? 00:37:09,420 S1: Great. Does anybody have any other questions? 00:37:12,980 S16: Um. Sorry. 00:37:14,340 S3: Actually, the very last part of the thing you were saying, you have to clear a section for them to be able to have access. 00:37:26,580 And you weren't able to scan that section? S18: Yes. Going up to the north. 00:37:28,380 S3: Where? 00:37:29,020 S12: Yeah. So it goes up. 00:37:30,100 S3: We're hoping and praying. Theoretically it could be a problem up there. 00:37:36,660 S18: Absolutely. It could be a problem. Yes. Because. 00:37:38,900 S3: So everybody knows. Look, I mean, you're hoping. But just because you're hoping doesn't mean it's so correct. 00:37:45,380 S18: The first segment wasn't showing the same signs. Right. But maybe when you get around the corner, for whatever reason, there was more gas and it is RCP pipe, so it could be in poor shape. 00:37:55,580 S3: I just just so everybody is like, look. Oh, they said it should be okay. But you're hoping it is, but you don't know yet. Yeah. 00:38:03,940 S18: And we need to get the TV cameras in there. 00:38:06,540 S3: Just trying to come back. 00:38:07,700 S1: Is there a plan to get the cameras down there at a later date or. 00:38:12,540 S3: To clear it. 00:38:13,220 S18: Out? Just got to get the easements kind of finalized. Make sure all the easements are in place before you go back there and clear. 00:38:21,540 S14: Okay. 00:38:21,980 S8: Is this like a in the next six months, three years, like, what are we talking about? 00:38:26,380 S18: Right now we're finishing. 00:38:27,900 S5: Up the surveying. 00:38:29,140 S16: Of it. 00:38:30,380 S18: Then we'll be back here. You're going to have to give us a proposal for their part of it. Uh, wetlands. A lot of wetlands in there. Uh, I was I'm hoping by next July we can start having all this stuff cleared up. 00:38:46,820 S14: Okay. 00:38:48,900 S7: And then the last thing I have is that the study that we did, the rate study. This was not included. You guys may not be aware, but we did a rate study for the sewer users because all these projects are falling on just the sewer users. Right. Right. So so there's a lot of money. So So was that included in the original? I don't I know it was found at the time. Right. I don't know if there was a number in the. 00:39:15,790 S18: Probably not to this magnitude. 00:39:17,470 S7: That's why I'm. 00:39:18,070 S16: Asking. Like. 00:39:19,710 S18: We didn't know the South line was bad at all. Right? That was that was part of the study. So yeah, the full magnitude probably was not. 00:39:27,590 S1: I think we did. Did we have an amendment to the study? The rate. 00:39:31,150 S14: Study? 00:39:31,950 S16: No, I don't remember. 00:39:32,990 S9: We did. So I look back at this. There was I think you guys did it in 2020. Yeah. And then in 2023, there was an update to a revision. I looked I just brought this up the other day. We're actually, I think $50. Don't quote me on that, but it's somewhere around $50 less per edu than what we would have been if we followed the rate study to a t. Yeah. So we're actually not even charging where the rate study had us for this fiscal year. 00:39:56,910 S7: Well, that's a problem already. 00:39:58,270 S9: Yes and no. Some things may have if we can, we know nothing. 00:40:01,670 S7: Well, we know that things fell off the list because we've been nicking off the things that on the low hanging fruit. Right? But then there's things like this that are not there that it's going to drive that. So being $50 short at this point now, knowing that there's maybe a three, $3 million hit. 00:40:16,400 S14: That's not. 00:40:18,760 S6: Going. 00:40:20,480 S9: To be determined to. 00:40:21,400 S7: Be determined. Right? TBD. But still, it's a concern. 00:40:24,280 S1: Some of it is going to be taken out, right? Like, right. Tonight we have a proposal. The proposal is coming out of sewer surplus. Right. So that's not directly increasing. 00:40:33,400 S9: Ratepayers have set that money aside. 00:40:35,720 S16: Right. 00:40:36,320 S9: The design the design monies squared away. That's not a new request that's already covered. Right. If we go when we go for construction costs, that's a loan that will be passed on to the ratepayers. That is that is true. 00:40:47,920 S7: Is there a possibility that we can I don't know what the cost is and I'm not throwing it out there, but can you see how much a cost would be to update the study with the things that have fallen off the list? And then this proposed. 00:40:58,680 S9: We we have it, we have it updated. Um, my struggle with that was bringing forward was it was pretty expensive, uh, to bring it back, but we just we just did a revision. 00:41:08,760 S16: Hold on, hold on. 00:41:09,680 S9: We just did a revision in 2023. So I think internally we should be able to work with tying bond on this. Okay. To, to kind of bring that closer to where it needs to be. We can do another one, but, uh, no. 00:41:21,240 S16: No, I don't. 00:41:21,600 S7: Want to pay for another one if we don't have to. But I'm saying that it's definitely important to know where we're going to land. And for the people that have to pay the bill to know where that rate is going to go so that they can prepare for it before. 00:41:33,080 S9: As you guys know, whenever we go for a bond authorization, we tell, we notify, we, we put out there what the rate impact is going to be. 00:41:39,520 S7: No, I understand that. But you're talking it's going to be for only the sewer users though. It's it's such a small. 00:41:44,920 S9: Every borrowing we do for sewer for wastewater treatment plant is for sewer users. Right. So we're going to maintain the status quo process on this. We're not doing anything different than what we've done in the past on these borrowings. It just is. We need the design before we get the actual number understood. So right now the request is the next item on the agenda is for using source surplus. So that's money that ratepayers have already paid, that we saved from last year or the year before is money that we're storing away. 00:42:11,930 S8: Hold on one second, Chris and I have a question. 00:42:14,250 S16: But but hold on one second. 00:42:15,930 S9: It's like everything else we have. 00:42:17,130 S16: To. 00:42:18,450 S19: Ask a taxpayer and as a user, and this is nothing against you people because you do a great job. Potentially. They don't allow you to to overlook or look at the entire sewer system. We have now spent close to $10 million on that sewer treatment plant, and it was in need because this board ignored what was the problem up there. I pay, and I believe we look at potentially $1,000 increase per household over five years. 00:42:57,690 S9: When the. 00:42:58,170 S19: When a lot of money. 00:42:59,210 S9: When the permit when the permit comes online. 00:43:01,930 S19: I'm sorry. I come to these meetings and every time it's a sewer problem and nobody tells us the truth about it. And you guys, Matt is on board. He's right on target as to what needs to be done. If you look in past town council meetings, this meeting, this issue has not been addressed since the late 90s into the 2000. And nothing has happened in our rates as sewer users increases and increases. You're taking surplus money out of here. I'd like to know what the total surplus is out of my tax dollars. 00:43:44,210 S9: I can tell you what the aggregate is. It's 2 million. 00:43:50,330 S9: 2,238,000. 00:43:52,130 S19: It seems to me that we're being overcharged to sewer users. I'm sorry. I have to leave this meeting. I am too upset. Every time. Phil, you last time you wrote it to hold it back until you looked at it more. And then the board just overstepped. It passed everything and very little has been done. Last town council meeting. I'll come to you. 00:44:14,420 S14: Okay. 00:44:15,780 S1: Jan, I think you had a question. 00:44:16,900 S8: I do. Um, this 3 million proposal here is that strictly for Sawyers and Three Rivers or all. 00:44:26,420 S1: Everything flows because. 00:44:28,420 S14: The. 00:44:28,900 S18: 95% of all the town's flow comes through that structure. 00:44:32,700 S14: Yeah. Okay. 00:44:33,700 S1: So as far as the sewer system reaches, unless it's on the same side of the wastewater treatment plan, which the majority of our town is on the opposite side of the river from the treatment plant, then everything else flows so big. Why the dealership? All of our neighborhoods. 00:44:52,660 S8: So with the 2 million surplus, you said there was 2.2. Okay. 00:44:57,260 S9: But again, we're not we're not even the three millions, not even on the table for tonight, so I don't want to. We're only talking about the design portion today. That's all we're looking for. 00:45:04,710 S8: How much are we looking for in that 227? 00:45:06,950 S9: There was an error on the um posting. It's 220 227 600. 227,600 is. 00:45:15,470 S16: The. 00:45:15,550 S8: Request. This is the study. 00:45:16,950 S9: For the design. 00:45:17,710 S8: Design? 00:45:18,230 S16: Yes. 00:45:18,910 S9: The design will then tell us. Is there going to be more needed. And we'll have a better number to come back to you guys for an actual bond authorization. 00:45:28,670 S14: Okay. 00:45:30,310 S1: Any other questions or comments? Ken? Anything? 00:45:35,670 S18: The only thing I can say is that. 00:45:39,830 S18: We should act on this because the farther we go, the more expensive it's going to get. Just like the roof project we did, if we would have did the roof 7 or 8 years ago, it would have been significantly cheaper than what we just did last year. Yeah, you can't keep pushing this stuff down the road because what's going to happen next year, our permits up and then EPA comes out and gives us a new permit. There's going to be a lot of mandates that we cannot make because our plant was built in 1976. So they're going to give us probably five years to come up to compliance. Then they're going to start hitting us with fines. Uh, we have to keep being proactive on this because if we keep just shove them underneath the carpet, it's, it's eventually it's going to be one big bomb. 00:46:28,910 S14: Yeah. 00:46:30,350 S9: And why we build up sewer surplus is to one cover us for large liabilities. If we have a break somewhere and we have to cover it like we have to pay for it. So you build up a reserve account to cover that stuff. Um, and again, I think this number, even if you look at the rate, the revision rate study that was done in 2023 is still less than what they were proposing for a surplus dollar amount. So, um, I just want to clarify that piece. 00:46:54,110 S16: That back. 00:46:54,510 S8: To the slide to add the numbers on it, please. 00:46:59,840 S8: Thank you. 00:47:04,480 S9: So again, we'll circle back to this once we get to the closer to the design. 60% will have a better idea on what the numbers is. This is just a very preliminary estimate from you guys what the data you have right now. But we're not asking for any authorization on this right now. 00:47:17,680 S16: Okay. 00:47:19,040 S14: Great. 00:47:20,560 S1: And we've known that this has been a major issue for a couple of years now. And I think that the that the town council has been, um, continuously interested in getting this kind of information and. 00:47:32,520 S14: Getting. 00:47:32,920 S3: It proactive on all of this. And I hope I'm not misspeaking, especially when this was dropped in the lap, because all of a sudden, for some weird reason, it finally had got inspected and seen that it was leaking and it hadn't been looked at in years. So, um, everybody is doing what they can do. And I also think that you do need to have a better maintenance program. Like, okay, you're going to look at that other section there. Um, how long is the good stuff going to last? You know, when should we be prepared to be taking care of that? But that stuff down there was discovered by accident. A lot of that stuff. So. 00:48:18,800 S7: That Phil has a good point though. You're saying that the easement is overgrown, right. So how long has it been since we've even. 00:48:26,520 S3: Looked in there. 00:48:27,160 S18: Looked down here 27 years and it has not been touched. There we go. 00:48:31,600 S16: Right. 00:48:32,160 S1: So and that's probably. 00:48:33,280 S3: How can we expect stuff to last and the council to act on stuff and do something when you know what was that old show. Carnac with the crystal ball. Yeah, yeah. We don't have that. 00:48:47,440 S9: So it's like everything else. It's a balancing act. Right? We try to keep the rates down as. 00:48:52,320 S18: Low. 00:48:52,520 S16: As. 00:48:52,680 S3: We can. Yeah. And listen, I understand. I understand her frustration and stuff, but I think something's brought to our attention here. We do what we can do. And again, nothing we you know, we need a better maintenance type program to where. Look it's not oh, hey, look, I opened up the fridge. Oh, man. 00:49:13,330 Fridge ain't been running for a week, you know, right? S16: Yeah. 00:49:13,770 S7: It shouldn't be 27 years since we, you know. 00:49:16,450 S16: Right. No, I. 00:49:17,610 S9: I don't disagree with any of that. I just think you guys do deserve credit because we did. Going through the rate analysis is a big step. Not every community that you guys probably work with does that. 00:49:27,890 S3: We probably did drag our heels. As I remember, we had money set aside or whatever, and you had to go back and look and see if that money was still from. 00:49:36,450 S16: Yeah. 00:49:37,490 S3: Or whatever that money had ever been used or not. 00:49:40,370 S16: So yeah. 00:49:41,490 S9: We had to reauthorize it. No, I, I get it. Yeah, I get it. But again, it's, it's, we try to stall these projects as much as we can sometime to our own detriment. And that's what we have to figure out a way forward on that stuff. So and that's what the capital plan does. It gives us that ten year outlook. We try to map it out. Things change. We can push them back. Some get moved forward. And this is one that we have to. 00:50:01,370 S3: Cover with. 00:50:01,970 S16: The. 00:50:02,690 S3: Thing here. So these poor gentlemen don't have to sit here and listen to the town backlash. 00:50:07,210 S16: Good to. 00:50:07,490 S3: Hear. 00:50:08,850 S20: And you're not the only municipality dealing with this. 00:50:11,890 S14: No. 00:50:12,610 S3: I'm sure Tony warned you. 00:50:15,130 S20: No, but Brad's point, it's a balancing act. You can increase rates extremely high, and then you have enough money to do everything or keep them lower, and then you're maybe not keeping up. So it's. 00:50:26,090 S18: Yeah. 00:50:26,970 S3: And like, what was it, Pat? She was just a Patricia there before we had town managers when I first became a councilor. 00:50:39,450 S16: Donovan selectman. 00:50:41,690 S3: Yeah. She was in charge. 00:50:43,370 S8: Donovan. 00:50:44,090 S3: Yes. Thank you. Anyways, her saying was, look, do the best you can do. You're never going to please everybody. It's the bottom line. Just do the best that you can do. 00:50:57,580 S9: And I mean, just to close this out, I think again, we've done a good job of being proactive and going after grants. If we get the the one stop grant that's going to cover hopefully up to $5 million of a project, uh, eight, seven, $8 million project that would have been passed on to the ratepayers as a whole. 00:51:13,980 S16: And that's already on the study. 00:51:15,500 S7: Right? Is that already included in the study? Right. 00:51:17,540 S9: So what the rate was for that right then, but it's only gone up. Everything only goes up obviously. 00:51:21,900 S7: But I'm saying but once we can knock things off the list like we have been doing with grants and things like that, then obviously that impact is less on the on the ratepayers and more back on their pockets. And we don't have to raise the rate. Like you said, we're $50 less than where we should be right now, which is a good thing and a bad thing, right? You know, you can look at it one way. Maybe that extra $50 could help fund more infrastructure projects, but on the other hand, it's $50 more in everybody's pocket. 00:51:46,700 S16: Exactly. 00:51:47,300 S1: So, um, and is the is the diff helping with any of these? 00:51:51,870 S9: Um, it eventually will, it still needs time to build up. But yeah, that's the goal of it for improvements for infrastructure. Yes, absolutely. 00:51:57,830 S16: Perfect. 00:51:58,270 S1: So there we are, you know, trying to be prudent when we think about the rates. Um, but also these, these projects need to get done. So thank you. Uh, up next on the agenda we have resolution number 2027-05. 00:52:15,350 S16: What I was going. 00:52:15,950 S7: To say, I was going to say we need a vote on this, don't we? 00:52:18,070 S16: Yeah. Okay. 00:52:18,950 S1: That's a separate. 00:52:20,390 S16: Yep. I'm with you. 00:52:21,190 S3: Um, ahead of the game. 00:52:22,750 S7: I am a little ahead. 00:52:23,830 S1: The resolution is to authorize a transfer of $227,600 from sewer surplus account number 244-32900 00:52:35,310 S1: to the Three Rivers junction structure. Account account number 30443261. 00:52:43,870 S1: Do I have a motion? 00:52:45,270 S16: Second. 00:52:46,310 S1: We have a motion and a second. 00:52:50,790 Any discussion? All those in favor? S16: Aye. 00:52:52,070 S1: Opposed? Abstention. All right. Fine. Two. There you go. Thank you guys. 00:53:04,110 S16: Thank you. 00:53:04,790 S21: Guys. Have a gold. 00:53:07,590 S5: Golden tide. 00:53:08,430 S7: Signing it right now. 00:53:09,670 S2: Yes. 00:53:11,750 S1: Okay. 00:53:16,030 S1: Yep. 00:53:18,470 S1: Now to item G on the agenda. The zoning amendment at 1290 Park Street. Map 56-77, parcel B from town residential to highway business. This will be a referral to the planning board. But Brad, if if you want to. 00:53:35,470 S16: Yeah, I. 00:53:35,910 S9: Actually, um, until this gets kicked back to us, I didn't do a ton of review on it. I only know that it's the northern construction. Um, northern tree. Excuse me, uh, Lot that they're looking for some rezoning on it. So again, we just refer. To the Planning board. Then they come back with their recommendation to us. 00:53:52,280 S1: Okay. 00:53:53,200 S7: I find it hard to believe that it'd be residential there on the highway business strip. 00:53:56,520 S1: There is. It's mixed. 00:53:57,760 S16: It's mixed. 00:53:58,200 S1: Well. Yeah. Because I think right. 00:53:59,360 S5: There's two houses. 00:54:00,000 S1: There's a couple houses. 00:54:01,120 S7: Behind it, but not on park. 00:54:02,920 S16: But yeah. 00:54:03,840 S3: Yeah. You got between the old Chabot's and Northern construction. You have two houses or house right there on the corner. 00:54:12,440 S16: Right. 00:54:12,760 S8: That's Allen Street, right. 00:54:15,560 S5: That one that goes behind. 00:54:16,880 S8: Yeah. Behind Gurley's Grill and. 00:54:19,720 S3: Got the flea market guy. 00:54:21,640 S5: What is he going to do with the two houses. Do you know just mow them down or what. 00:54:25,720 S1: Two houses. 00:54:27,000 S5: Behind the. Oh they do. 00:54:28,400 S8: One. 00:54:28,600 S16: Of. 00:54:28,720 S5: Them. So you got to do it quick. 00:54:30,600 S8: No. 00:54:32,800 S1: Okay. Um so do I have a motion to refer this zoning amendment. We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Abstentions. 00:54:49,480 S1: And, um. Next on the agenda we have resolution 2027-06 authorization for Property Conveyance and Easement Agreement with 2022 Main Street, LLC. Brad. 00:55:03,840 S16: Yep. 00:55:04,160 S9: So, um, Justin, feel free to come up if you want to talk through any of this. Um, but the background on this is, um, as you guys know, there's a public parking lot behind Riverbend laundry. Um, we've been for a while now. I think this is going on over a year. I think we've been in contact of trying to figure out how to move forward with this. So we were working with legal counsel on trying to come up with a way that we could sell a piece of that parcel. We don't want to give up the whole thing, obviously. And I've had conversations with you about eventually building that out, putting a, a drive like. 00:55:34,040 S16: A. 00:55:34,560 S7: Area. 00:55:35,040 S9: Recreational area. So you can sit by the, you can look down at the water. You could grab a quick bite to eat over there. Something of that. This does not impede that. This would be directly behind where the laundromat is right now. Um, primarily that area is used for a Riverbend customers anyway, so it's not necessarily a loss to the town. What the town would gain through this is we would work with Justin and his team in Riverbend. Uh, and being able to utilize, um, there's a walkway right in between, uh, the property right now that brings you right to Main Street. That that's what we're interested in obtaining. So rather than right now, if you park in that parking lot, you have to walk away, walk around the whole way to the corner of Burgundy Brook to get to the main street. This would allow us a full walk in. So you are literally right on the corner of Riverbend. There's a little, uh, Ada accessible sidewalk right there that you can cut over. And your two, I use it as lavallette. If I'm a grandparent, I'm a parent going and I need overflow parking from Lavallette, I can park back there and walk through the whole main street. I can cut over in between the two buildings, take a slight right, cut across the street and I'm right to lavallette. So to me, this is a win win for the town, because we can advertise it as a public walkway. That'll be part of the easement. And it's a win for Riverbend because they can pave this area and it'll be dedicated parking for Riverbend. 00:57:00,250 S8: We have a map of this. 00:57:01,610 S16: I was going to say it should be included. It does not. 00:57:03,970 S7: It's not in here. I was going to say the map is not included in the packet because it says that to convey the entitled proposed parking plan expansion. 00:57:12,090 S16: We can pull it up. 00:57:12,890 S8: Is he. 00:57:14,490 S16: Is. 00:57:14,690 S3: It not between Ramadan's. 00:57:16,090 S16: And. 00:57:16,290 S7: Well, that's what I was going to ask. Are you talking about the property between Ramadan's and Riverbend? 00:57:21,210 S9: It's not necessarily that property because we don't own in between. We own behind. 00:57:26,690 S16: That. Correct. 00:57:27,810 S9: So we'll show you on the map. It'll all. 00:57:29,890 S16: Because I know, Mr. Diaz. 00:57:31,330 S7: I know that you guys just did. On the right hand side, you guys did that whole area where you had tenant parking, right? And you put that nice area in parking. 00:57:38,810 S3: Lot for the drugstore. 00:57:40,370 S7: Okay. 00:57:41,980 S8: Do you, uh. Is it one of these crazy maps are. 00:57:47,700 S18: Building. 00:57:50,540 S7: Oh, so it is on the right side of the building. So that new area that you put in the nice sidewalk and the grass area in between the smock building and your building. Okay. Yes. 00:58:01,100 S8: We're so close. Nope. 00:58:03,260 S9: Exactly. And we can advertise that that's a public, accessible walkway. Okay. 00:58:07,100 S7: It brings you to be. 00:58:08,260 S8: Used. 00:58:08,540 S3: To be able to drive through there. No. 00:58:09,780 S7: You used to be able to. Yes. 00:58:10,900 S3: It was Keith and Horgan's. 00:58:11,980 S7: Yes. Yes. And then, Mr. Diaz, they, um. Yeah, they did a site plan adjustment and they. Yeah. 00:58:17,820 S3: They used. 00:58:18,100 S7: To be. No it isn't. 00:58:19,060 S3: Now through there to get into the parking lot. 00:58:21,300 S7: Yeah, yeah. Now it's a walkway. Now it's a walkway with grass and everything. They did a really nice job. I want to see it, to see it. 00:58:29,740 S8: I'm not as old as you. I don't remember all these old names, so. 00:58:32,980 S7: So it looks like it's from the corner of that property back. So we'll still retain the town parking behind those buildings up against the fence, and then we're. And we'll still have the town land that we cleared on the corner. We're not giving up any. Yeah. So it's just the sliver that's behind his building. Perfect. I got you. 00:58:51,190 S9: Yeah, exactly. 00:58:51,990 S8: Right here. 00:58:52,630 S9: It's used by primarily customers for Riverbend anyway, so it makes sense. Yeah. 00:58:58,470 S7: Right. So are you planning on going all the way behind Ramadan's with it? 00:59:02,110 S21: Yeah. 00:59:02,790 S9: Our parcel doesn't run that far. 00:59:04,310 S7: Oh it doesn't. 00:59:05,030 S9: I mean, it it. 00:59:05,830 S8: It. 00:59:06,590 S9: It doesn't run up to the Ramadan's building, I should say. There's still a buffer back there that is owned by whoever it's owned, not by the town. But this will run along the right hand side parallel to it. Exactly. Yeah. Got it. Exactly. Okay. And there's enough area just. I think you guys mapped out for the drainage piece. 00:59:25,550 That was the primary concern of why? S8: Yeah. 00:59:27,230 S5: I can't even see what that. 00:59:28,590 S8: Says in this packet. 00:59:32,750 S5: Yeah, there's a walkway. 00:59:33,950 S7: Just out of curiosity. Your plan is to pave at some point. Nice. Yeah. 00:59:39,430 S9: They got they get dragged into your. Yeah. 00:59:41,830 S7: No, I get it. Yeah. 00:59:43,830 S18: And put. 00:59:44,270 S9: Signage. Yeah. Which I think is another way. It's a win for. It's a win for the community. It looks better than what it is now. Yeah. Perfect. 00:59:51,990 S21: Okay. 00:59:53,070 S8: So is there do we have the wording on this easement? 00:59:57,150 S9: We don't. It's just it's the general terms of it is what you're agreeing to. 01:00:01,870 S8: Just the concept. 01:00:02,670 S9: Yeah. I take it back. I'm thinking you're I take it back. I thought you were talking about, uh, the land. The land. You're giving me authorization to move forward with. 01:00:10,150 S7: The pedestrian easement? 01:00:11,630 S9: Yes. 01:00:12,390 S7: Yes. 01:00:12,910 S9: So I don't have that narrative right now, but I'll work with legal counsel and make sure it all gets checked out. 01:00:18,630 S8: Okay. 01:00:19,270 S22: Forgive me. I'm trying to plug laptops. 01:00:21,190 S9: But if you if you have anything specific you want me to note, I'll write it down to make sure it gets in there. But, um, our legal counsel is pretty good at this stuff. 01:00:28,110 S7: Actually, it doesn't matter. You have to kill yourself. 01:00:29,630 S8: I didn't know if how, you know now how it was going to go with the town property and is it going to run with it if he sells? 01:00:37,800 S9: Yeah, it would be it become his ownership. 01:00:40,040 S8: Okay. 01:00:40,920 S9: I guess we're talking two things here. Attacking the easement piece of. 01:00:43,280 S8: This. 01:00:43,760 S9: Easement. The easement piece of it, I would say yes, it probably would transfer. We'd make sure that it transfers in perpetuity. Yes, yes. 01:00:52,680 S2: Perfect. 01:00:53,080 S1: Okay. Resolution number 2027-06 for I'll make a motion that the council authorize the town manager to one convey to 2022 Main Street, LLC, the real property identified as area one A and area one C on the plan entitled Proposed Parking Plan Expansion Expansion by Pioneer Land Planning dated May 1st, 2026. Two Grant to 2022 Main Street, LLC. An access easement over area one B on said plan and three accept a pedestrian easement over the property known as 2022-2026 Main Street between Main Street and in La Riviera Avenue under such terms and conditions as the town manager deems to be in the best interest of the town. 01:01:49,120 Do you have a second? Any further discussion? All in favor? S2: Aye. 01:01:50,240 S1: Opposed? Abstentions. 01:01:52,880 S23: Pull it up right now. 01:01:53,840 S9: If you could. Just for people here so they could see. 01:01:56,560 S23: Can I send the email over? 01:01:59,680 S22: Sorry, guys. 01:02:00,440 S23: Sign it. Oh. 01:02:07,760 S23: No. Wyatt does this all of a sudden. Now I have to, like, navigate. 01:02:15,200 S23: Inside of here. 01:02:26,080 S24: There it is. 01:02:27,760 S25: Okay. 01:02:33,200 S23: So this is the parcel. Then this would be the grassy area. 01:02:40,650 S7: Yeah. 01:02:43,570 S18: So the proposed pedestrian easement is that sidewalk right at the right hand side of the building. And then the back of the deposit? Yeah. 01:02:53,970 What are we doing this up here? S9: Just to show the the public of what it looks like? Yeah. No. 01:02:57,290 S22: You're good. Sorry. 01:02:58,330 S7: What's the oval thing all the way on the left hand side. 01:03:01,090 S23: That's his. 01:03:02,010 S9: Potential. Drainage. 01:03:02,770 S23: Drainage? 01:03:03,410 S18: Yeah. 01:03:04,050 S7: Okay. 01:03:04,930 S18: That was just additional. 01:03:07,970 S18: Stormwater management. We're still not sure yet. We haven't done a full study. Okay. So in the event that we would need somewhere to drain that water, we're thinking that outside of the cage area. 01:03:19,290 S23: Okay, great. 01:03:21,050 S1: Awesome. Well thank you. 01:03:23,250 S7: Awesome. 01:03:23,930 S9: Took a while to get there, Justin, but we're there. 01:03:26,570 S23: All right. 01:03:33,650 S1: Okay, moving on to subcommittee reports. 01:03:38,850 Anyone? S7: I know that the ordinance committee needs to schedule a meeting. We have a lot of stuff on that agenda. 01:03:43,850 S8: You are the head of that. 01:03:45,610 S7: I'm on it. I'm not the head of it. 01:03:47,330 S8: Well, it's just you, me and Ryan, and you have the experience. 01:03:50,210 S7: And I was gone. So, yes, I will be able to get something on. I will get in touch with Ashley, and we'll get something scheduled and posted, because we can't do anything without doing it. 01:04:00,450 S23: Yes. 01:04:01,410 S22: I was going to say I'm taking the lead on that project so we can connect and determine what time of day works best for everybody. 01:04:08,610 S7: Awesome. 01:04:09,170 S1: Great town manager's report. 01:04:13,090 S9: All right. So the Commerce Middle School RFP is available. Responses are due back by October 1st at 3 p.m.. Um 1307 Park Street is in the final phase two environmental testing that was complete the. The testing on site was completed last Friday. Takes about a five day business day turnaround for the results. Um, then Atlus, who's our environmental consultant, will review them and give us a report. So the goal is to honestly have this closed out before the end of the month. Um, we extended the agreement with the owner, uh, through October 2nd or third, I believe. Um, but we don't want to wait that long. As soon as we can acquire this building, if everything checks off, we're good to go. Question on that. 01:04:51,620 S7: I thought we did this a month ago. 01:04:52,900 S9: We revoted. We revoted a month ago to give us another month. So all this is an update. 01:04:58,460 S7: What was the hang up? I thought we were going to. It was all. 01:05:00,780 S9: Time frame on testing. We want to make sure we have all the environmental testing complete before we move forward with it, so there's no sign offs needed. You guys did everything you need to do to extend it. No change on that end. I'm just noting that, um, we may run up to the end of that deadline, but I'm hopeful that we're a week in advance of that at a minimum. 01:05:18,780 S8: Is it a 21EI? 01:05:21,460 S9: Not my not my total knowledge area, but I Alice, we've worked with them before on this type of stuff and it's anything that could contain hazardous. They're reviewing the whole process. So it could be 2020. But I don't want to tell you it's not. 01:05:36,750 S7: The only thing I have to add a comment to that is that, you know, the owner has been very good to us and had other I mean, he had another avenue, but we were technically we could have taken the property no matter what because of the way we did things right. And we were very generous to the owner. But yet, on the other hand, you know, we're now making them wait, you know, so it's it's kind of. 01:05:57,750 S9: Yeah. 01:05:58,230 S7: It's kind of a. 01:05:58,670 S1: Crappy situation. No matter who the purchaser would was. 01:06:01,630 S9: Exactly. You could hit a snag at the bank for a loan. There could be a million scenarios that happen. I totally understand that, um. 01:06:07,390 S1: Environmental test from somebody else. 01:06:09,030 S9: Well, that's exactly it. So there's a lot, a lot to this that they'd have to go through unless you were buying it for cash and could skip all of these testing. 01:06:14,470 S7: I understand what you mean. 01:06:15,670 S1: We are in one way, we're skipping that because we are paying cash. 01:06:18,550 S9: But the town still doesn't want to take the liability on of purchasing. Exactly. Yeah. We're going through it. And he's he's been good to work with. So, um, I'm hopeful everything gets done. Like I said before the end of that closeout date of October, but should be good. Awesome. Um. The following roads are scheduled to be paved from this a little bit late, but from September 8th through 18th, uh, Springfield Street from Maple Street to New Hampshire Ave. Calkins road from route 20 to the Turnpike overpass starting in the end of September. Early October. Baptist Hill Road. The full length will be paved and then scheduled before November is Water Street. Um. The DPW is continuing to work with our shared and Complete Streets consultant to move forward for the sidewalk and street crossing upgrades in multiple districts. I know I've talked about this now. I think we're going on close to two years. This has been talked about. Um, the primary snack we've hit on this is I am reluctant to move forward with the bidding on this until we are cleared for the area in front of big Y and Ocean State and McDonald's. That is such a vital part of our shared and complete streets, in my opinion, that this isn't worth bidding without those components to it. So we're still trying to get notice of intent signed off by all of them. Once we have that, we're already working behind the scenes to get all the bid package ready to go with the assumption we're going to have sign offs. So that'll go out. Uh, they may do some work if depending on who bids it this winter, but the reality is it's probably not until spring when they're doing anything. So. 01:07:44,360 S7: So where's the money coming from currently for the sidewalk projects that I see going on in town? 01:07:49,080 S9: Uh, general chapter 90 money, I can imagine. Okay. Yep. They're not tied to remember. There's like 12 specific parcels on this. Yeah. We had to value engineer a few of them out already. Um, but the goal is I just don't want to go out to bid until we have the, the Ocean State McDonald's and big Y locked in. I just think that is such a vital part of connectivity. 01:08:08,280 S7: We haven't stopped because I see sidewalk projects going on. 01:08:10,640 S9: No, we're still continuing on different different pot of money. 01:08:12,880 S7: Okay. 01:08:13,160 S9: That's why we're still we're still moving forward with sidewalk projects. 01:08:15,480 S7: I just don't want people to think that we're stopping on projects because. 01:08:17,960 S2: Good question. Is that the grant that Matt Morris had. 01:08:22,240 S9: Got, we started it. Exactly, yeah. So it's almost. 01:08:25,400 S18: When that was going to. 01:08:26,200 S9: Happen. Exactly. And I gave an update in the spring, I thought we were going to move forward. But again, I just I do not want to move forward without the big Y piece because that is such a vital. You talk about complete streets. You're not you don't have complete streets in town until you have that connectivity, in my opinion. And that's the last piece we need to move forward. 01:08:42,760 S7: That helps us too, because in our diff area. 01:08:44,800 S9: Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. And again, we don't need to spend money on that. 01:08:47,920 S7: No we don't. 01:08:48,400 S9: But at the same time it's infrastructure. 01:08:50,000 S7: Area that's going to get fixed at the same time. 01:08:52,320 S9: Especially if there's if there's ever development on the hill. This again gives you walkability, access to again, I don't know. I get people have to get to big Y, but um, crossing right now in that area and walking on the street is it's a little scary. So I think we're going to a safe sidewalk. 01:09:09,400 S3: Walked in there. 01:09:10,160 S9: Yeah, it's already built into the sand. But, um. 01:09:13,800 S3: Anyway, how many years they've been walking that grass. 01:09:16,280 S1: Mhm. 01:09:17,120 S9: Uh, but more to come. I'll keep you guys in the loop once that's finalized. But again, behind the scenes, we're getting the bid specs ready to go, so we don't stall this any longer than what needs to happen. Uh, construction around Front Street and Park Ave, which is in the park area, started today. It's estimated to take about two months with the final top coat of asphalt and punchless items to be complete by April or May. So they'll shut down for winter. Again, this is community development funds. Uh, splash pad will be closing on Friday the 17th. Uh, great year from all accounts. I don't think we had one day that it was shut down. Uh, so we'll take a win when we can get one. Um, and we look forward to another, uh, spring and summer to be here sooner rather than later. 01:09:56,890 S22: To clarify, it's the 18th. 01:09:58,370 S9: Sorry. The 18th. 01:09:59,970 S23: Yeah. 01:10:01,890 S9: Um, and the public health nurse with Mill Towns regional, uh, vaccine clinic will be running on October 7th at 10 a.m. through 4 p.m.. Or is it. 01:10:14,130 S22: Yeah. From 10 to 4. 01:10:15,130 S9: 10 to 4. Um, and then additionally, on October 22nd, from 1 to 4 at the library. 01:10:21,970 S22: It's posted on our website too, if anyone wants to check the other locations and reminders for the times. 01:10:29,220 S9: And that was all I had. 01:10:31,740 S1: Anybody have any questions for Brad? 01:10:35,500 S1: Miscellaneous correspondence. 01:10:40,420 S7: Mail? 01:10:40,820 S2: No. Yeah. 01:10:42,260 S1: Uh. Counselors. Roundtable. 01:10:44,740 S8: I kind of have a dumb question, so please bear with me. I'm new at this. 01:10:53,060 How do you, like, make a town law? Who does that? S1: Like an ordinance? 01:10:54,420 S8: Yeah, an ordinance, I guess. 01:10:59,260 Is it by department that does it? S1: Yeah. I mean, it really. It depends on what the. 01:11:02,820 S8: Like the police I'm looking for like a traffic law because there's been a lot of problems with e-bikes lately. Mhm. Um, they're going to cause an accident or someone's going to die. And I think that maybe we should have something done about that before that happens. 01:11:17,060 S22: So the e-bikes is a specific problem that's happening all over right now. And there is state guidance. So I think that's more of a public service announcement education piece that we can accomplish together. 01:11:28,420 S3: Bottom line, bicycles are supposed to follow the same rules and regulations as cars. So and they're not. Sometimes what you all obviously need to do is enforce laws that are already there, not create something new. 01:11:40,700 S8: And that's great. I mean, maybe I don't know who is in. 01:11:43,540 S1: Charge of the first Avenue would be to talk to the chief about the issue and then see what he recommends. 01:11:49,220 S8: Yeah. Because, I mean, there's like no helmets, no lights, reflectors, high vis. They're going in and out of traffic. They're looking down at their phones. They, you know, like cars. 01:11:57,980 S1: Yeah. 01:11:59,340 S3: Everyone looking at their kids. 01:12:00,980 S1: Right. Well. 01:12:02,020 S3: They don't want to wear a helmet that's on them. 01:12:03,700 S1: Well, definitely, I think it's worth having a conversation with the chief because he can, uh, you know, maybe there's some mechanism that they already have in in place on enforcement with that type of behavior. Um, and then go from there. 01:12:21,230 S1: But if it you know, if it warrants an ordinance, then, uh, you know, there's proposal of language and then it kind of goes through the first read, second read public hearing in order to become, um, you know, refer to the subcommittee ordinance subcommittee, um, similar to, uh, similar to what we're doing with like the stormwater ordinance right now. It's just different, different language, different issue. 01:12:50,470 S7: So that's more of a public safety thing. And I'm pretty sure the chief has already got on the radar. Most communities already have it on the radar. 01:12:56,750 S3: I totally get what she's saying, because I see him go by the junction and stuff and it's crazy. You know, they're kids. 01:13:04,030 S8: But they're going like this. 01:13:04,990 S3: The only difference between them and when we were kids is we actually pedaled the bike, right? 01:13:09,790 S13: Well, yeah. 01:13:10,430 S3: And did all the stupid stuff that they're doing now. You know. 01:13:13,910 S8: Looking down at our. 01:13:14,550 S3: Phones, you can't fix stupid. 01:13:16,750 S8: Well, 40. 01:13:17,470 S5: Miles an hour. 01:13:18,470 S3: You can't. 01:13:21,550 S2: Anybody else? 01:13:22,070 S5: Anybody else? Yes, I do. 01:13:23,990 S1: Great. 01:13:24,710 S5: I'm very proud of this. In the spring, late winter, I joined at Westover. Civil air patrol flight. And I'm gonna. Vietnam server. It's cool. And I teach cadets there. And the plane that went down in Ludlow. No one could find it. No one at all. And my immediate boss, not the commander there, has the apparatus to find the beacon. So he went down there. It was further down the road. And then he located where it is there. In there. And they found him. So. Good thing. Well, not good thing. But if they were alive, they would have been waiting there a while. 01:14:03,430 S1: Yeah. 01:14:04,070 S5: But. So hopefully we'll get more, uh, recognized for doing that search and recovery and boats, planes, people. It's wicked cool. And if any young people want to join, I'll help them. 12 to 18 you can be a cadet and you'll be head. 01:14:22,840 Heads over anyone going into the military at that time? S23: Very cool. 01:14:23,600 S5: Yeah, it is cool. Yeah. Thanks for that. Yeah. 01:14:27,080 S23: Anybody else? 01:14:28,680 S1: Um, I'll just say that I attended the nine over 11 ceremony on Friday, and I always appreciate that the am, um, American League, American Legion, uh, puts that event on every single year. Uh, and the state senator and state representative were both there. And they were also extended their appreciation that Palmer is one of the few communities that continues to do it every single year. I know that this was a big year because it was the 25th anniversary, but, uh, Palmer continues to remember the anniversary every single year. And I think that Our Town does a really great job at, um, remembering, you know, big events and, um, you know, time in history. Um, so props to the American Legion for continuing to put that on. 01:15:19,040 S12: Very good. 01:15:19,680 S1: Great. So now we will adjourn from formal session and take a roll call vote to enter into executive session, not to return to open session. Under Mass General Law. Chapter 38, section 21. Number three, to discuss strategy with respect to collective bargaining. If an open meeting may have a detrimental effect on the bargaining or litigating position of the public body in the chair, so declares DPW administrative unit UPS local. 424MI so declare I'll make a motion. 01:16:00,840 Do we have a second? Second motion? A second roll call vote? S8: Yes. 01:16:01,640 S1: And Carl. Phil. 01:16:03,480 S2: Yes. 01:16:04,240 S1: I vote yes. Thank you. 01:16:08,120 S5: Have a good night.